If Samford leaves...

[elroy]

e4e5nf3 said:

elroy said:

I heard from a most reliable EKU source, IF the OVC begins to downsize, de-emphsize, let more non FB schools in, EKU will be looking for a new home...football is very IMPORTANT to EKU and Colonel fans, regardless of how our FB program is perceived by the rest of you in regard to not posting an OVC Championship for 10 years. The potential is still there and we do have a football history that folks in Richmond WANT back!

Sooooo...what does letting non-football-playing schools into the OVC have to do with EKU wanting to get a conference football championship again? It doesn't make sense to me, so I'm being a little flippant, but if there is a sensible reason, I really want to know. I know and respect EKU's football history; I just don't see what one has to do with the other.

My only reason for bringing up conference championships or lack of in this case is that each time EKU mentions moving to another conference all ____ breaks lose, with people saying EKU hasn't done anything in years, so who would want them and where are they gonna go?

I'm telling you that folks at EKU want both a strong football program and basketball program and that includes the President of our University, as opposed to what we suffered with for over 10 years. That former President is the prime reason basketball suffered for so long. He did not care if we even had a team, but if we did just don't ask for money and make sure no one on any athletic team makes any waves or causes any trouble. The feeling at EKU is that many OVC members only give a token nod to football and by bringing in non football members the conference is further sending a message regarding the unimportance of football in the OVC and it weakens our status for football even more than it is right now. Right or wrong, the OVC already is looked upon as a sub-par football conference.

[moreheadeagle]

Sub par b/c of lack of football post season success. I don't think that has anything to do with schools being "basketball" schools, but playoff teams not winning. Heck, Martin and EIU both came close to winning their playoff games last season. It doesn't hurt the SoCon one bit that there are non-football schools in the conference. I don't mean to be rude but if adding non-football schools to the OVC made the EKU administration want to leave then that's just assinine. If it were the case then I'd be sorry to see you all leave but oh well.

Mid-major conferences get respect from basketball (and to some extent soccer: ie Creighton) not FCS football. I hate to say it but it's true.

[elroy]

Let me put it another way. We, EKU look at where some of out old rivals have gone. Rivals that we beat many times. They have moved up, we have stayed in the OVC which has taken members who were formally DII, and now we are looking at non football schools? I have read over and over from other OVC fans that
" football is a money drain so their school should just get rid of football", that the "OVC is a basketball conference", etc, etc. I have never heard an EKU fan or the current adminstration express any of the above. As far as "respect". We won't being getting any at all, IF we continue to water down this conference. Just my opinion.

Example: MTSU leaves, we add TN-Martin
WKU leaves, was and still is, at least for the time being, out BIGGEST rival. They left and now are going IA.
Marshall: A school we had a great rivalry going with for abut 10 years. They are now IA.
Then is Troy and Central Florida to name a few football schools that we not only were competitve with but beat.

Do you see where this is going? We want more than to be in a conference that is just basketball and where some schools just happen to have a token fb team. There is your reason. You may still not understand it and you may not like it, but there it is.

[moreheadeagle]

Frankly no, I don't understand it.
Heck, I'm a Morehead fan so I know how annoying it is that WKU and Marshall have moved on but look at it this way.
Adding Martin probably wasn't the best idea, but let's say we add NKU. A big market team with a lot of success. I think they'll help the conference. I'm not saying the OVC should drop football but allow non-football schools in. If the EKU administration is that petty that adding non-football schools would make them want to leave the conference then that's just stupid. If that were the case I would say, "don't let the door hit you."
How good is Troy? MTSU? UCF? WKU? et al. in football? I don't see college gameday promoting the big UCF, Southern Miss. matchup. Unless you're I-A BCS, no one cares besides the few students and alumni that your school has.

I've advocated Morehead rejoining the OVC in football, but adding non-football schools can only help the OVC be a true mid-major. I want us (the OVC) to be competitive in all sports, but seriously, has requiring football really helped the conference?

[e4e5Nf3]

BTW, elroy, kudos to EKU's president. She and Samford's prez seem to be the top two as far as developing athletics goes.

[elroy]

I can't make it any more elementary than this:
NKU: a former community college under the old UK community college umbrella
wku and Marshall: the teams we loved to beat, BCS football. It does not matter where I like it or you like it. Your status is measured by the company you keep. Nothing against NKU, but I am sure most Kentuckians DO NOT associate NKU with DI basketball, high expectations and status. THAT is just the way it is. IF that is what Morehead aspires to, have at it. It's not where I see EKU, at least I hope not. Again, only my opinion.

One more thing, I am tired of the OVC being the gateway to DI, be it be football as in the case of UT Martin or basketball for NKU. Some schools, perhaps move on. Original members, EKU and Murray State stay and take whatever the OVC brings along for the next 50 years.

[ekumaroons]

It's true that non-BCS conferences pretty much have to butter their bread with College Basketball. I think most EKU fans will admit that.

Historically, however, that is not how EKU has defined itself and I think many Colonel fans, like Elroy and myself, sometimes look enviously at a conference like the SoCon because it is so successful at football and we think that the SoCon places a higher premium on that sport. Colonel fans want a conference with multiple playoff bids and playoff victories, which is what the OVC used to be.

Because the OVC is no longer winning playoff games or seen as a player on the national level, we tend to blame that on the other things that have happened in the meantime, even if it isn't exactly the most logical jump. For instance, Morehead and Austin Peay being allowed to go non-scholly and remain in the conference. We see that as a sign that the conference isn't willing to protect football. But really, maybe it isn't bad if some of the weaker programs aren't there to drag down SOS and GPI and what have you. Certainly, other conferences have success without having as many members. (In fact, the A-10/CAA might be the only conference with more football playing members. Is that true?) But at any rate, schools were allowed to drop football, new schools were admitted and the football prestige declined. We tend to tie all of that together even if it isn't rock solid logic.

But that doesn't mean the OVC will remain a week football conference. UT-Martin is now fully funded in football and look what they're doing. U-T-freaking-Martin! It's great for the league. The quality of play has stepped up dramatically in the last two years. Sure, an OVC school is yet to win a playoff game in the new millenium, but we came d**n close this year (Twice!). I think Football is making a resurgence.

The only problem I have with getting all high and mighty myself about football is that EKU has not won a title since 97 and a playoff game in even longer. Some of our fans think we're just "playing down to the competition" but that is crap. The conference is playing good football. The worst team we lost to last year was easily Western Carolina of the SoCon.

Elroy does make a good point about EKU rivals moving away from us. Our three biggest football rivals were WKU, MTSU and Morehead. Two go BCS, one goes non-scholly and now our closest "rival" is TTU? That's kind of saddening. Can we get a little sympathy for that?

As for NKU, I think I've already documented how I expect them to go Horizon if and when they go D-I. As for the comments that the former community college doesn't have the respect we would like it to have... I think that is a rapidly changing opinion. I don't think the day is far off when NKU is the largest, most well-funded and highly respected regional in Kentucky. They enjoy so many advantages with their location and their law school. About the only thing they won't have on EKU in a short while is probably history and Football and the College of Justice and Safety. That's hard to swallow, but I think it's reality. It wouldn't be a bad idea for the OVC to try and jump on that, I just don't think they'll bite.

[funkychicken]

I'll add another school to the possible OVC mix: West Georgia in Carrollton, GA. They are currently in Div II in the Gulf South Conference. They are in the process of funding a football stadium on campus, and they are making noises about moving up to D1. The JSU campus and the UWGa campus is about 50 or 60 miles apart.

Kennesaw State is looking at adding football. They are currently a D1 school, having just moved up from DII about two or three years ago. I don't know if they will be D1A or D1AA in football.

FC

[Admin]

SIU-Edwardsville is going Div. 1 is all sports.

[elroy]

I'll add another school to the possible OVC mix: West Georgia in Carrollton, GA. They are currently in Div II in the Gulf South Conference

SIU-Edwardsville is going Div. 1 is all sports.

This is just what I am talking about, a gatewate to DI. While again EKU, TTU and Murray State, all orginal members of the OVC watch old rivals move on and up and we stay in the OVC. Schools come and go. Perhaps on their way up and maybe stay and maybe go, and we sit here in the OVC waiting for something to happen and all the while talking about what next former DII or DIII school wants to use our conference as a stepping stone. What's next NAIA? There's Berea College in Madison County, EKU could hook up with a travel partner 6 miles down the highway and then they could even share the same bus. Or what about Asbury College, they play basketball. Then there's Midway Women's College, those women have a great Equestrain team over there. Where does it stop?

[ekumaroons]

Does SIU-E play football?

[Admin]

TTU is not an original member of the OVC.
There were:
Murray State, Eastern Kentucky, Western Kentucky. Morehead State, Evansville, and Louisville.

[boomerang]

ekumaroons said:

Does SIU-E play football?

No, they do not. They have an exceptional soccer program - arguably one of the best D2 soccer programs in the country. They also have a very good track & field program. Basketball has been good the past few years, but traditionally, nothing to speak of (outside of the last 5 years I suppose), and their basketball facility is nothing of note.

They appear to be a good fit with the Mid-Con, aligning with schools like UMKC & IUPUI. Just my hunch though.

[ekumaroons]

TTU might as well be an original member. They joined in like the second year or something.

It doesn't sound to me like SIU-E fits the OVC mold for a school. I assume we're talking men's soccer? A great track team? Those kinds of things don't really excite me. All SIU-E has going for it in my book is the fact that they're right outside St. Louis.

[boomerang]

SIU-E is not a good fit for the OVC, they are a much better fit in the Mid-Con. They hardly have St Louis going for them either, they are way down on the St Louis media priority - similar to TSU in Nashville, except add in a historic Major League baseball team - and you get the kind of coverage they get. St Louis media coverage goes like this:

1. Cardinals
2. see #1
3. see #2
etc, on down to around
8. Rams
9. Mizzou
10. Blues
11. SLU
12. High Schools

SIU-E isn't any more on their radar than any other school. And since it's in Illinois, most of the St Louis residents (the ones from Missouri) could care less about it - and they aren't crossing the bridge to go see them either.